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Julian Jaynes Society Discussion Forum: Exploring Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind Theory since 1997

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 Post subject: Socrates vs. Aristotle - which one was bicameral?
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:54 pm 
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I am reading "The Trial of Socrates" by I. F. Stone and find it interesting that Socrates' views are so similar to bicameral man's and that at the same time (400 BC) many other philosophers had views that are similar to post-bicameral man. At the end of chapter 3 Stone states, "So we conclude our first point in demonstrating the fundamental philosophical divergences between Socrates and Athen. He and his disciples saw the human community as a herd that had to be ruled by a king or kings, as sheep by a shepherd. The Athenians, on the other hand, believed - as Aristotle later said - that man was 'a political animal,' endowed unlike the other animals with logos, or reason, and thus capable of distinguishing good from evil and governing himself in a polis. This was no trivial difference."

Just as Julian Jaynes found similar differences in the Iliad and Odyssey, I find it interesting that both ways of "thinking" possibly existed at the same time in ancient Greece. I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has a similar view.


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 Post subject: Re: Socrates vs. Aristotle - which one was bicameral?
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:58 am 
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Yes, and even more to the point, Socrates had what he called a daimon, or "divine guide" — a hallucinated voice that deterred him from taking certain actions.

Socrates:

"The favor of the gods has given me a marvelous gift, which has never left me since my childhood. It is a voice which, when it makes itself heard, deters me from what I am about to do and never urges me on."

Socrates may have been an early transitional figure, a fully conscious person still experiencing active auditory hallucinations.

David Stove discusses this further in Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness (p. 274).


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 Post subject: Re: Socrates vs. Aristotle - which one was bicameral?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Aren't there stories where Socrates had intensive internal discourse with this internal voice to the point of that he would remain rooted to the spot for an entire day, transfixed, unmoved, heeding his 'daimonic sign'?
And in line with Jaynes' theory that bicameral man possessed immense strength and stamina Socrates was noted to have these qualities in abundance when a soldier. His physical gifts were noted to be some way above those around him. Particularly stamina if I remember correctly.


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