Julian Jaynes Society Discussion Forum: Exploring Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind Theory since 1997
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Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic
http://www.julianjaynes.org/jjsforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=915
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Author:  Jimbean [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic

First, I very much appreciate this forum. Thank you.

I have some questions regarding the hypothesis.

Is is correct to understand Bicameralism as a continuation of the ability to control oneself and one's environment, and to the degree that one is subject to their automatic response system?

Is the concept trying to explain how humans evolved from an animal mentality, to a semi-conscious mentality, and a future fully conscious mentality?

Is Bicameral 'development' a function of analog models and useful principles as a means of creating mind space, moving the human mentality from bicameralism to consciousness?

Thank you again.

Author:  pcg [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic

Jim, complicated subject. The bicameral mind, as theorized by JJ, is a pre-conscious mind, devoid of consciousness as we define it. I suspect from your questions that you haven't read JJ's work. Briefly,

-- No, the theory of bicameral mind has nothing to do with "a continuation of the ability to control oneself and one's environment."

-- The concept/theory explains how human consciousness evolved from pre-consciousness, not a "semi-conscious mentality," and it does not project anything similar to a "future fully conscious mentality."

-- Not sure what you mean by, "Is Bicameral 'development' a function of analog models and useful principles as a means of creating mind space, moving the human mentality from bicameralism to consciousness?"

Many of these questions would be quickly answered by reading Jaynes' major work. The issues are complex enough that they don't lend themselves to short answers that you'd find satisfactory. An in-depth read would prove well worth your time.

Author:  Jimbean [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic

pcg wrote:
I suspect from your questions that you haven't read JJ's work.


I have read the book. Maybe I did not phrase my questions clear enough.

pcg wrote:
--No, the theory of bicameral mind has nothing to do with "a continuation of the ability to control oneself and one's environment."

I understood that bicameral minds were subject to their automatic response system. The more automatic a person is, the less authoritative that person is. It is possible that conscious people seemed like gods to unconscious people.

pcg wrote:
--The concept/theory explains how human consciousness evolved from pre-consciousness, not a "semi-conscious mentality," and it does not project anything similar to a "future fully conscious mentality."


The "future conscious mentality" is a theoretical addition to Jaynes' theory. Here is an example:
http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/tl10-2.htm

Author:  Jimbean [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic

So, does it make sense to say that, the less bicameral someone is, the less automatic?

Author:  Jimbean [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bicameral Mind As A Dynamic

Well, to correct this up a bit:

Automatizing reactions is natural for people to do simply to conserve energy. We spend most of our time recalling information instead of constantly being aware. So the correct statement is being consciously aware is not being automatic.

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