Julian Jaynes Society Discussion Forum: Exploring Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind Theory since 1997

Loki's Speech
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Author:  eddwo [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Loki's Speech

I was quite struck with Loki's speech in the Avengers

On getting a crowd of people in Hamburg to kneel, he carries on..

Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity: that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.

To which a lone old man stands and responds
Not to men like you.. there will always be men like you

I think there is a fair amount of truth in his words. From my experience most people would rather follow than lead, and will look for an authority figure to decide for them in many situations. Perhaps it's a weakness of personality, but I find myself reluctant to take a stand, and risk exposure.
I wouldn't necessarily submit to someone who threatened physical violence, but if someone wanted take control and I thought that they were wise enough to make decisions in everyone's interest and not just their own, then I would probably be quite happy to leave things in their hands.

Is that a remnant of a willingness to submit to 'command hallucinations'?

Author:  selfreplicate [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loki's Speech

You've raised a great point for discussion. This recent clip, and the following threads, would probably be of interest to you. And since you mention it, you'd think that the Bicameral Mind would be popping up more nowadays, considering this current shift in how we view authority (decentralization and other 21st century sounding words)..

Margaret Heffernan: Dare to disagree
FILMED JUN 2012 • POSTED AUG 2012 • TEDGlobal 2012
http://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffe ... agree.html

Author:  eddwo [ Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loki's Speech

Looks like the same idea occured to Terry Pratchett

Royalty was like dandelions. No matter how many heads you chopped off, the roots were still there underground, waiting to spring up again.

It seemed to be a chronic disease. It was as if even the most intelligent person had this little blank spot in their heads where someone had written: "Kings. What a good idea." Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It was its tendency to bend at the knees.

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