Julian Jaynes Society Discussion Forum: Exploring Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind Theory since 1997

Realignment of Priorities
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Author:  General Zard [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Realignment of Priorities

Since, I appear to be the first to post here, I shall say a few words as an introduction. I am a peon. I talk in peon English. I'll not be able to converse in Heavy Academic English. I am well read; but, nevertheless, a peon.

In my pursuit of, what I call Spiritual/Emotional Growth, I have accumulated a large number of ideas, which I attempt to apply to my daily life. I combine the ideas in The Origin of Consciousness with Carl Jung's idea of 'the mental realignment of my priorities'. Accomplished by an 'autonomous noodle complex' or 'summarizer' (?).

I have had one personal experience with a 'voice' in my head, with 'pictures', and that was my last drink of alcohol for the past 15 years. Certainly, in the area of alcohol, my life changed instantly. I have been attempting to repeat this 'phenomena'; but alas, I have not even come close.

I don't care if it was self-hypnosis, a 'divine' encounter, the 'devil', the Bicameral Mind, the Bicameral 'God', a 'Summarizer', or an autonomous noodle complex. I have desperately tried to make contact with 'IT', one more time. I have tried to re-enact my emotional despair on that night, the utter defeat in my attempt to get free from alcohol, with no 'one or no 'thing' to turn to for help, isolated, abandoned, 'forsaken', "hopeless and helpless", ignored by the 'gods?', facing the realization that I would eventually die drunk.

After reading The Origin of Consciousness, I searched diligently, trying to find an author or 'group' that would be able to 'take it further'. Maybe, combine it with Carl Jung's teachings. Maybe, provide a format for 'practical application' in the daily life. Alas. I despair. Am I the only one searching?

I'll bathe in the River Jordan, dance around a Pentagram, chant endlessly, sit cross legged, whatever, anything to get results. I am reminded of the author, Hugo Enomiya-Lassalle, "Living in the New Consciousness", "Many will sit cross legged for many years, and achieve very little."

Air'ish, philosophical ideas are an interesting study. Practical application, enrichment of daily life, that is where it is 'at'. But, where is 'IT' ?

(To the Moderator: You may delete, move, edit, or whatever you consider appropriate.)

General Zard

Author:  igdonp [ Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Reordering priorities

I enjoyed your post. Your honesty is refreshing. When all is said and done, we are all more alike than we care to admit.
If we all could only understand and articulate ourselves better and more truthfully, we would be able to understand a great deal more about the phenomenon of consiousness.

Author:  Obdurately Conscious [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:14 am ]
Post subject: 

General Zard, I understand your pain. I am also on a path to accumulating a better understanding, as can be said for the whole conscious world to some degree, but your hallucinatory experience should be viewed passively as a fortunate experience and not be forced to occur again. If it happens again naturally, so be it. The further I look toward a more enlightened view of consciousness, or an idea that could take it further, I am led to metaphysical pseudoscience. Instead I would be willing to perform feats of mind/body alignment through exercise and yoga and look inward much like you were looking inward when you had your experience. Jaynes would probably explain to you that what you saw was part of you and you were able to tap in at that moment, and now all you have to do is get closer to yourself once again. Sitting cross legged alone will do nothing. Have you ever done any hallucinatory drugs like mushrooms, salvia, or DMT? I don't promote such usage, but you did say you'd try anything.

Author:  SmooveB [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

Why is it that most people gain from hallucinations, but in the treatment of schizophrenia (by psychiatrists in particular) absence of hallucinations is the benchmark of progress?

I am diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, but have never found my hallucinations particularly troubling (read: I learned something from each) though they were often quite disturbing.

As far as General Zard's post, I imagine that only in a time of peak stress did you reach an appropriate threshold to initiate (or at least perceive) a hallucinations. In that light, it could very well be possible that your threshold has now raised after your apparent recovery. It would only make sense that a significantly higher stimulus would be required to prompt another hallucination. Before plunging yourself to depths at present unimaginable to you, perhaps you should ask yourself the question "am I prepared to endure this immense self-inflicted punishment for the _chance_ to experience one more hallucination?" I cannot judge your response either way, but I do understand quite well the dangers of such intense strains on they physical, psychological, social, and spiritual self. That being said, please don't leap before looking, but I'd like to hear the outcome regardless.

Author:  Moderator [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

SmooveB wrote:
Why is it that most people gain from hallucinations, but in the treatment of schizophrenia (by psychiatrists in particular) absence of hallucinations is the benchmark of progress?

I think you are making a bit of a leap when you say that "most" people gain from hallucinations. It might be more accurate to say that "some" people do.

People with mild hallucinations that derive some benefit or insight from them are in most cases probably not the ones being treated by psychiatrists. The people that I have met personally that suffer from schizophrenia are barely able to function or maintain even menial jobs due to the literally constant barrage of harrassing voices they experience.

But your point is well taken: the automatic reaction of doctors is typically to view hallucinations as pathology and work to eliminate them. However, the work of Marius Romme in the Netherlands and others is beginning to turn this around — showing that hallucinations are found on a continuum throughout society, and not always harmful.

Author:  SmooveB [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

Perhaps I should clarify what I meant by "gain from hallucinations," yet I stand by my use of "most." In using the term "gain" I wish to express that something new is experienced, most people of suitable conscious aptitude will question the meaning of the experience, and these people will ultimately gain some insight. This does not mean, however, that the benefits outweigh the cost, for that varies individually. For me, a schizoaffective, the insights I gained during times of active hallucinating where quite thrilling, though the constant onslaught of negative symptoms often overshadowed the experience.

I was aggressively treated by ambitions psychiatrists who almost convinced me that I wasn't perceiving things that were not, but that I was reacting to a chemical imbalance. I am grateful now to my natural distrust/paranoia regarding shrinks in general, because I almost explained my illness to a member of my family in the same errant manner. Sorry for my digression.

Author:  Fisherman [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

SmooveB wrote:
As far as General Zard's post, I imagine that only in a time of peak stress did you reach an appropriate threshold to initiate (or at least perceive) a hallucinations.

Smove has a good point. I think that under short periods of intense stress or maybe after long periods of chronic stress, our body chemistry might change in such a way that we are able to perceive these auditory hallucinations. There is a book out called the 3rd Man Factor that describes similar experiences of an "other" that manifests itself in times of great stress. Here is the wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Man_factor

I read an article about an African man who was attacked by a leopard or other large cat. He heard a voice that told him to grab the cat's tongue or he would die. He did so and was able to kill the cat and survive. Personally grabbing the tongue would be the last thing I would think of doing, but it worked for him.

I think that native american practices that involve fasting and isolation might be ways to bring about this state of mind on purpose.

Author:  General Zard [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Realignment of Priorities

I appreciate the response from each of you.
I am giving serious thought to each of your suggestions.
And thanks for the suggested links.
I don't have any thing to new to report,,,
More like treading water.

Author:  paulstpaul [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Realignment of Priorities


I have a question.
You say this inner voice spoke to you and your life suddenly changed.
But do you know why you obeyed this voice? What emotion did it provoke in you? Did you feel you had no choice but to obey it?

The study of habit-forming is interesting.
In the area of addictions/habits (getting rid of bad ones, forming new ones), often at times it is easy, other times difficult. If the trigger is strong enough then habit-forming will seem easy as it becomes an either/or situation, do/die etc.



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