Search found 14 matches

by GraemeM
Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:50 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Real World Practical Implications of Jaynes' Theory
Replies: 9
Views: 15390

Re: Real world practical implications of Jaynes' theory

Hi Mod, yes I've read some of Dennett and others but I am by no means well read in the field. I suppose the hard problem is a different one from that tackled by Jaynes. Jaynes offers a theory to explain the inner I that experiences the world whereas the hard problem asks how it can be that we can ex...
by GraemeM
Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:17 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Real World Practical Implications of Jaynes' Theory
Replies: 9
Views: 15390

Re: Real world practical implications of Jaynes' theory

I wouldn't say my life has been completely changed by Jaynes' theory, however learning about his theory has been *part* of a substantial rethinking about what I think life and consciousness is. I began digging more deeply after a sudden realisation about what I ate, which sort of reflects Moderator'...
by GraemeM
Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:02 pm
Forum: Dreams & Consciousness
Topic: Dreams and J-Consciousness
Replies: 4
Views: 15224

Re: Dreams and J-Consciousness

I'm not sure I follow your argument there Mod. Your own explanation doesn't illustrate a non-dreaming state in ancient man or animals. Isn't Jaynes simply arguing for the notion that language and hence J-consciousness confer within us an "I" space, a metaphorical language based sense of self absent ...
by GraemeM
Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:32 pm
Forum: Dreams & Consciousness
Topic: Dreams and J-Consciousness
Replies: 4
Views: 15224

Re: Dreams and J-Consciousness

I can't see why not. As I understand it, bicamerality doesn't mean that a mind has no inner experience. All mammals, men and dogs included, should quite simply have in their minds a model of the world and a representation of experiences and events. It seems to me the 'mind-space' that Jaynes speaks ...
by GraemeM
Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:51 pm
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

You may be right. I noted above the distinctive qualitative difference between hallucinated voices (and I am able to generate such voices with the right state of mind, so I know what they sound like) and internal narration. It does seem to me that these voices, whatever they are, have a quite distin...
by GraemeM
Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:43 pm
Forum: The Bicameral Mind: Breakdown, Neurological Model, Evolution, etc.
Topic: Why Even Discuss Bicamerality?
Replies: 3
Views: 10131

Re: Why even discuss bicamerality?

Perhaps you are right. I'm not convinced but hey, I am not that intimate with the psychology and mechanics of religious ideas. For me the standout aspect of Jaynes' thinking is his notion that consciousness is instantiated in language and the capacity for narrative introspection. I'd like to see a l...
by GraemeM
Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:32 pm
Forum: The Bicameral Mind: Breakdown, Neurological Model, Evolution, etc.
Topic: Why Even Discuss Bicamerality?
Replies: 3
Views: 10131

Why Even Discuss Bicamerality?

Here's a thought I've had about Jaynes' theory, I'd be interested in comments. I gather that there are two central planks to Jaynes' theory. These are firstly that in early man, the mind existed in a partitioned state with directive thoughts 'heard' as voices apart, and secondly that as the brain in...
by GraemeM
Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:52 am
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

Thanks, yes I've since read through much of that section. And I plan to buy those books too, extraordinarily interesting even if I am not quite swayed to Jaynes' hypothesis. Sometimes I feel there are points he makes that don't quite work for me but it may be I simply misunderstand or have too brief...
by GraemeM
Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:59 am
Forum: The Mentality of Pre-Literate and Pre-Modern Peoples
Topic: Vestiges of Bicameralism in the Pirahã
Replies: 3
Views: 14530

Re: Vestiges of Bicameralism in the Pirahã

Interested to see some earlier comment about Everett's findings with the Piraha peoples. I hadn't realised this had already been covered here. A couple of observations. The first is mention of racism. I find this curious and I ran into it elsewhere (I have previously discussed what I called 'develop...
by GraemeM
Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:00 am
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

I think this is an interesting area of uncertainty, just what is meant by consciousness. It's possible that these terms in themselves are confusing, being saddled with the baggage of historical meaning. Modern ideas of consciousness may have outstripped older senses of the words themselves. I agree ...
by GraemeM
Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:19 pm
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

I've just begun delving into this site in detail and there is a wealth of info to read! I wanted to add a further comment which I'll do here although it might have been better in one of the other boards. As I said above, the biggest problem seems to me to be nomenclature. No-one is really quite clea...
by GraemeM
Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:33 am
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

Thanks for this. A little reading to do. On this matter of language generating consciousness, it follows that consciousness as such must be of different character for people with languages of greater or lesser complexity? In fact, how we introspect is probably different in quite marked ways between ...
by GraemeM
Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:48 am
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

Re: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that would be the case. This does raise some further questions though. Narrowing 'consciousness' to the idea of an introspectable mind-space is an interesting but salient demarcation in my view. It seems to me that language (in particular written language) is ...
by GraemeM
Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:46 am
Forum: The Nature of Consciousness: Its Features and Modes
Topic: A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?
Replies: 13
Views: 22583

A point of clarification - what does Jaynes mean?

Hello, I'm a new member here after discovering thios website recently. I hope to find the time to have a good read of the site, but I do have a question in the meantime. I have just read Jaynes' book about consciousness and on first reading I am very impressed with his ideas. I think he is definitel...